Start Packages Working Group.

[Hart]

But new farming PCs will not be starting with a +19wp wealth thread. They'll be starting with +1wp and working their way up. And I'm not sure if 1 acre of land will cost only 1wp.

Anyways, I don't know. I still advocate for only a small seasonal upkeep for animal maintenance, and basically continuing to have a system like the one we have now (where the price of animal feed is relatively negligible, especially if in the new system NPCs are also not going to cost anything). But that's just me. I'm sure the price list peeps will take it all under consideration. ^_^

[Lei'lira]

::nods:: I was going by the idea of an acre of land costing 800 GN and rounding up to 1000 if 1 wp is worth 1000 GN to avoid dealing with fractions. I have no idea if that will remain true.

In the package, it is mentioned that a new farmer starts with 5 acres if raising animals. That would support 1 animal before feed fees apply. Since they would have 2 horses (breeding pair), three cows & bull, 8 sheep, goats or pigs (will at least one male), or twenty chickens, that would leave 1, 3, 7, or 19 animals they need to provide feed for depending on which option they take. That may be possible to cover with their starting wp...but it may not. I haven't done the math for that. It seems likely that the number of animals you start with needs to be adjusted - or the amount of land you start with. If those numbers are used, anyway.

[Kesindir]

Hey guys, been keeping up with the go between here and wanted to chime in. I'm curious, as I work on a dairy farm with over 150 cows, acreage I'd say maybe 200-300, we don't just graze on acreage. We have rotating fields we graze them on and feed them hay and grain combined. Is there a way for this to be looked at maybe instead of a one or the other option? Like, if we used Lei that 19 acres of land won't feed -all- of the animals she has, but it could help cut the cost down of the supplemental feed she needs to purchase? At least until she has a suitable amount of land per animal ratio that's satisfactory. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Our dairy farm is very different from commercial ones in how we graze and such, so I know our's is in the minority, but it showcases smaller family owned farms a bit better.

[Isen Fydar]

I have spoken to other individual working on the Wealth System Update about this discussion. It has been very productive to hear different points from others that this would effect. I will mention that this is just the initial starting package for Farmers and Ranchers. But some of these concerns don't affect the initial package, but what happens to the player after they begin the process of RP their character. I will do my best to help keep things as balanced as possible. As well I will get try to submit something for wealth tiers and such for farmers and animals in the next version of this package.

Thank you all!
-Isen

[Hart]

Just as a general question, do starting packages need to include starting items, since that should be covered by a PC's wealth tier? Or are starting items more like suggestions for equipment to select?

@Kesindir

Are you suggesting that a farming PC should get discounts on the cost of feed depending on their supplemental acreage?

Currently a PC can split up 'how' they feed their animals between feed and land. A PC can have some of their stock live off their acreage, and some of their stock live off feed. So it is already sort of a mixed system. Really, as long as a player is supporting all of their animals' upkeep, I don't see why that player couldn't use narrative license to say that their animals are both getting feed and are being grazed. That might not be precisely represented by how a player is paying for upkeep OOC, but OOC and IC don't always need to be strictly the same.

[Yrmellyn Cole]

About

After discussion with Peg in Discord I wrote up this draft of a tentative Noble's Pack with several options. Please post your comments and improvement suggestions in this thread!

Noble's Package (WIP Version 0.1)

Introduction

Not all cities in Idalos have nobility in the shape of ladies and lords who inherits their titles based on being members of a noble family, but all cities have some kind of leaders with power positions. This social class can be very different in different city cultures and it can go by different names, but there’s often such a class in a city.

Being noble is flavor, power can only be earned in roleplay. All PCs in a city are important regardless of their social tier. Making a noble PC means the player has an option to make an IC powerful citizen of them, but they don’t have a monopoly on rising to power. IC power must come as the consequence of the roleplay and character development, just like it is for all other PCs.



Wealth Tier

A noble PC starts at the personal wealth tier 5 (or lower) but their family can be way wealthier than themselves.

With a wealthy and influential family comes access to living standard higher than the PCs own wealth tier allows for. The rules for the benefits of being born to social privileges is described in the options, rules and restrictions for Family wealth

Being noble comes not only with privileges but also with restrictions and duties. The general restrictions are set by the family wealth rules. The city specific restrictions are local and defined by the city storytellers.



Noble’s Package Options

There is four general nobility packs with a few profiles each. The PC gets the starting pack and profile which is in effect in your chosen city at the time the PC starts there. Please be aware that there can be cities where there’s no nobles. It's also probable that not all noble packs may be available. Ask the city storyteller!

Pick one of the packages A, B, C or D, depending on the main focus of the nobility in the PC’s city, with a profile that applies to your PC.

A: Noble's Package of Land Governance

Profile	Government	Nobility	Titles	Powerbase	Time limit
1 Grand Noble	Monarchy	Aristocrats	Inherited	Family	Until Excommunication
2 Fief Noble	Principality	Vassals	Commissioned	Service	Until Revoked
3 Landed Gentry	Proletarocracy	Pillars of Society	Folksy	Renown	Until loss of trust

B: Noble's Package of Warfare and Crime

Profile	Government	Nobility	Titles	Powerbase	Time limit
4 Military Noble	Stratocracy	War Leaders	Earned	Military Merits	Until defeated
5 Robber Noble	Crimeocracy	Crime Chiefs	Earned	Violence	Until murdered

C: Noble's Package of Mindpower

Profile	Government	Nobility	Titles	Powerbase	Time limit
6 Priest Noble	Theocracy	Priesthood	Ordained	Religion	Until heresy
7 Wizard Noble	Mageocracy	Wizards	Self-Professed	Magic	Until hybris
8 Scholar NobleText13	Scholarocracy	Scientists	Earned	Academic Merits	Until falsified

D: Noble's Package of Influencing and Business

Profile	Government	Nobility	Titles	Powerbase	Time limit
9 Politician Noble	Bureaucracy	Administors	Elected	Voters	Until losing
10 Business Noble	Plutocracy/td]	Tycoons	Bought	Money	Until ruined

Examples
To be updated with a list of one-liner examples of what the types of nobles are about



Housing

Pick one of the following two options.

Option - 1: Live in your own home (cottage or apartment) with a Citizen’s Pack or other average pack.

Option - 2: Live in your family location

• A set of clothing and toiletry items, same as for citizen’s pack
• One 130 sqft room on the family floors (approximately 12 m²)
• Furniture on par with the rest of the family home
• One tiled stove or fireplace
• Access to mounts kept in the family stables and a family carriage
• One set of elegant riding attire above your wealth tier OR one set of functional body gear and armor above your wealth tier
• One set of ballroom attire OR Other elegant formal attire above your tier
• Access to family jewelry you can borrow OR Family weaponry to borrow
• Access to local gardens, pastures, nature, farmlands owned by the family
• Access to family owned locations (dining room, ball room, library, office, training grounds, barracks, ship, graveyard, catacombs, dungeon cells, kitchen area, crafting workshops)

Starter Items

You may have any items from one level above your own wealth tier (or below) upon startup.




A Note On NPCs
If you want to use family employee NPCs, those must be written up fully as city NPCs working in the family locations.



Heirloom Item
You may have ONE item at up to TWO Wealth Tiers above your own as part of this Pack. However, this cannot be sold or given away and must be of emotional or practical significance to your PC.

[Isen Fydar]

First Draft Traveler's Package

Introduction:
The Traveler’s package is designed to help players who wish to have their characters survive and make a living through traveling the world as a caravan merchant, mercenary company member, circus entertainer, etc. Unlike the Wilderness Package, whose focus on characters who aim to live, survive, and explore the wilderness of Ilados. The Traveler’s pack is meant for those character’s who aim to migrate and use the wilderness as a means of travel.

Housing:
As a traveler you are traveling throughout the world and do not have access to permanent housing. This is a restriction on start up and for your first season of play.

Wealth Tier:
When choosing this Starter Pack you are at Wealth Tier 4 (or below if you choose). This must be noted on your CS. Whichever Wealth Tier you start on, you have the minimum Wealth Points for that Tier.

Starting Items:
You may have any items from your Wealth Tier or below upon startup - this includes clothing and furniture, but please note the restrictions on number etc per category. Please also note that, since you start with the minimum number of Wealth Points in your Tier, if you choose to buy anything using Wealth Points you are forcing your pc down a Tier automatically.

As a Traveler, you also have access to the following:
Pick One (From Wealth Tier 5):

• Drawn dual axle covered wagon that measures eight feet long, four feet wide, and 3 feet deep. Two oxen or two horses. (And all required equipment)
  
  Or
• Treated canvas walled tent that measures twelve feet long, ten feet wide and seven feet tall. A horse and a pack animal.(And all required equipment)

As well as the following items (from Wealth Tier 4):

• Campsite Equipment (Pots, pans, cooking essentials, etc.)
• Bedroll and bedding
• Camp Knife
• Fishing Gear (with a set of hooks) or Hunting Bow (with 10 broadhead arrows)
• Storage Chest
  
  Heirloom Items:
  You may have ONE item at up to TWO Wealth Tiers above your own as part of this Pack. However, this can not be sold or given away and must be of emotional or practical significance to your PC.

[Yrmellyn Cole]

I had a discussion with Leilira on Discord and got good feed-back on the writeup of the Noble's Package (WIP) above.

In short she said: "I would say let the city mods decide which nobles exist in their city, and how much/little influence they have in the city, but give some kind of description in the starting package as to what each type are/could be."

I'm going to update the writeup with a list of one-liner examples in order to make it clearer, as discussed with her.

[Lei'lira]

For the Traveller's Package, I like what I see. I especially like having a choice between a wagon and a tent since that can make a difference in the type of traveler a PC is - a traveling merchant/trader, or a hunter who travels between cities selling their pelts, furs, and such.

The one thing I could see was maybe you should give the choice between a storage chest and a backpack/hiking pack of some kind since the chest might be difficult to carry without a wagon to carry it in?

[Isen Fydar]

@Lei'lira: Well the reasoning for the tent was more for mercs and/or circus members. As a general rule of thumb would be, that a hunter would take the wilderness package (but not have to go that way). But that was the general idea lol.

I will edit for tent users to have a better storage idea.