Thoughts, suggestions and ideas

[Lei'lira]

I'll take a stab at this. First off, I like the article. One of my biggest questions is this bit from the article:

Determine how many Wealth Points you have in your Tier This is done by considering your current GN and Property / Land etc.

I have no idea how to begin deciding how much GN is worth as far as converting goes, but I do have a few ideas on property. The first question in that is what "property" gets counted, and what doesn't. You could simply add up the GN cost of every single item you own as one possibility, and then convert that to wealth points by whatever means is decided upon for that.

But since wealth is meant to be a measure of what kind of lifestyle a PC lives, you could also say that only certain types of "property" apply to this. Things like a PC's house/ship, land, expensive farm equipment/buildings, valuable animals (horses, livestock, hunting companions, exotic pets and the like as opposed to a pet rabbit or cat), rare books, magical artifacts, weapons, jewelry, high quality clothes...things of that nature.

I am tentatively in favor of the latter idea, but it is hard to know what the cut off is on that. Would a king or queen sized bed count since those are more luxury items than normal beds? What about a PC who collects clothes, and has far more than a normal person might even if they are all standard or good quality? Or medicines? Poisons? I have no idea how to begin guessing about those.

If someone has a LOT more GN than their wage suggests - do we bump them up the levels? (I say yes, but their WAGE is at the level their wage put them?)

I like this idea as well.

[Kyreen]

I'd be inclined to say if Person paid out money for an item (which should be recorded in Person's ledger for easy access) then it counts towards wealth. That's the simplest method.

So starter pack houses don't count, nor the furniture they come with, but expanded or later bought houses and furniture do. An animal that came as part of a starter pack (eg. farmer's ox, city dweller's pet) doesn't count, but others do. Ditto for clothes.

[Quio]

I would say the original conversion of 1000gn = 1wp is pretty good for determining where a PC is in the wealth tiers. Instead of having PC's go through their possessions and add up what each item is worth, I propose simply giving them +1wp per tier to account for the value of their current possessions. So

1wp at absolute poverty
2wp at destitute
3wp at struggling
4wp at poor
5wp at average
6wp at comfortable
7wp at wealthy
8wp at very wealthy
9wp at rich
and 10wp at filthy rich

I can't imagine anyone has so many possessions (and by possessions I don't mean land or property for landbound PC's or ships for seafaring PC's, I mean things like clothing, weapons, armor, animals, etc) that they exceed these numbers. Lei'lira for example, has tons of horses. I looked through her ledger, and according to her ledger her horses altogether value a little more than 3200gn. At very wealthy, she would be given a bonus of +8wp to cover all her belongings (or the 'equivalent' of 8000gn). I think that more than covers it.

So for Faith...
Her wage puts her at rich, which is 196 - 250wp. Each PC starts at the lower end of the wealth tier before adding in their additional wealth (their additional wp value from their savings, property, and possessions). So Faith would have 196wp, but because she's valued at (60000 / 1000 = 60) + the value of her property (value of property / 1000 = ) + 9wp (to account for her possessions) that would actually put her into the filthy rich category at 265+wp (filthy rich is 251 and above). However, as Pegasus suggested, her seasonal pay would remain what it was before (21 or 22wp/season).

For Lei'lira...
Her wage puts her at very wealthy, which is 141 - 195wp. Starting at the lower end of the wealth tier, she would have 141wp, but because she's valued at (111 / 1000 = 0.111 rounded up to 1) + the value of her property (23181 / 1000 = 23.181 rounded up to 24) + 8wp (to account for her possessions), she would start with 141 + 1 + 24 + 8 = 174wp. She would still be considered very wealthy at that wealth point value.

As for determining a player's starting seasonal pay...

They would take their current daily wage and their total value in wp (so for Faith it would be 73gn/day and 265+wp and for Lei'lira it would be 46gn/day and 174wp), and depending on their value use this table
extra line here

daily wage	wage-based wealth tier	wealth points	wage per season
0 - 2gn/day	absolute poverty	0 - 1wp	1wp/season
0 - 2gn/day	absolute poverty	2 - 3wp	2wp/season
0 - 2gn/day	absolute poverty	4 - 5+wp	3wp/season
extra line here
3 - 4gn/day	destitute	6 - 11wp	4wp/season
3 - 4gn/day	destitute	12 - 18wp	5wp/season
3 - 4gn/day	destitute	19 - 25+wp	6wp/season
extra line here
5 - 7gn/day	poor	26 - 30wp	7wp/season
5 - 7gn/day	poor	31 - 35wp	8wp/season
5 - 7gn/day	poor	36 - 40wp	9wp/season
5 - 7gn/day	poor	41 - 45+wp	10wp/season
extra line here
8 - 10gn/day	struggling	46 - 65+wp	11wp/season
extra line here
11 - 20gn/day	average	66 - 77wp	12wp/season
11-20gn/day	average	78 - 90+wp	13wp/season
extra line here
21 - 30gn/day	comfortable	91 - 102wp	14wp/season
21 - 30gn/day	comfortable	103 - 115+wp	15wp/season
extra line here
31 - 40gn/day	wealthy	116 - 127wp	16wp/season
31 - 40gn/day	wealthy	128 - 140+wp	17wp/season
extra line here
41 - 50gn/day	very wealthy	141 - 158wp	18wp/season
41 - 50gn/day	very wealthy	159 - 176wp	19wp/season
41 - 50gn/day	very wealthy	177 - 195+wp	20wp/season
extra line here
51 - 75gn/day	rich	196 - 222wp	21wp/season
51 - 75gn/day	rich	223 - 250+wp	22wp/season
extra line here
76+	filthy rich	251+wp	23+wp/season

extra line here
So for Faith her starting seasonal wage would be 22wp/season. For Lei'lira her starting seasonal wage would be 19wp/season.

Note: The examples given (Faith and Lei'lira) are only approximates because I have only a cursory idea of what their total property value etc. are. Faith and Lei'lira would likely still have to go and look through their ledgers / CSs to determine what their exact wealth values would be.

Also note that the additional wealth is broken up into 3 categories, property, savings, and possessions. Property includes land, buildings they own, and things like ships. Savings is how much gn they've accumulated in their ledgers and in banks. Possessions include everything else (animals, equipment, clothing, etc.).

[Lei'lira]

I can't imagine anyone has so many possessions (and by possessions I don't mean land or property for landbound PC's or ships for seafaring PC's, I mean things like clothing, weapons, armor, animals, etc) that they exceed these numbers. Lei'lira for example, has tons of horses. I looked through her ledger, and according to her ledger her horses altogether value a little more than 3200gn. At very wealthy, she would be given a bonus of +8wp to cover all her belongings (or the 'equivalent' of 8000gn). I think that more than covers it.

All the pretty little horses...


This doesn't apply to me as much, but how would you calculate the cost of magical artifacts? Things awarded in quests, or made via alchemy, and such? Even if not bought outright, they would have a value, I think. Or things bought via point bank points for people who have done so? Echo Scrolls, portal boots, and such?

[Pegasus]

Hey everyone!

So - I've had a few days away from this to clear my brain slightly. Here! is the Wiki page written up for GF'ing PCs. Please please could everyone check it, make sure that I'm not missing anything. Once we have this, we have the base system which is a great relief!

Thanks so much!! <3

[Pegasus]

Hey all - just a quick heads up - we're changing the names of the Tiers to Tier 1, Tier 2 etc - making that edit now. Will change nothing in terms of what is at each tier, just making the language a bit more neutral. That is especially important considering that the ifestyle is different for city based, wilderness and seafaring pcs.

Thanks!

[Lei'lira]

Rather than work out every individual item and its worth, every pc who is grandfathering in gets a number of Wealth Points to cover their possessions, determined by their Wealth Tier.

This. Oh, I love this idea. It will make things infinitely easier when calculating wealth points for grandfathered PCs. XD


I found the article clear, and easy to read. The one thing I am wondering about is that I think it was mentioned that seasonal wages would increase with more wealth threads as they do now? I could be misremembering this. But using Lei as an example, at very wealthy, she would get 18-20 wp her 1st wealth thread, and add one for each one going forward? If this is still something that will be done, it should be mentioned somewhere. Admittedly since this is for grandfathered PCs, it might be mentioned in a different article.

[Pegasus]

Rather than work out every individual item and its worth, every pc who is grandfathering in gets a number of Wealth Points to cover their possessions, determined by their Wealth Tier.

This. Oh, I love this idea. It will make things infinitely easier when calculating wealth points for grandfathered PCs. XD


I found the article clear, and easy to read. The one thing I am wondering about is that I think it was mentioned that seasonal wages would increase with more wealth threads as they do now? I could be misremembering this. But using Lei as an example, at very wealthy, she would get 18-20 wp her 1st wealth thread, and add one for each one going forward? If this is still something that will be done, it should be mentioned somewhere. Admittedly since this is for grandfathered PCs, it might be mentioned in a different article.

Ohhhh good catch! Thank you!

[Kyreen]

Looks pretty good. I had to go hunting through the forums to find how much starter houses were worth. It might be worth adding the price of a starter house somewhere for easy conversion?

I also predict a wave of people either dashing for the next 1000 or spending down to just above the previous 1000

[Pegasus]

Looks pretty good. I had to go hunting through the forums to find how much starter houses were worth. It might be worth adding the price of a starter house somewhere for easy conversion?

I also predict a wave of people either dashing for the next 1000 or spending down to just above the previous 1000

Re: Housing: I think that will be part of the work on Starter Packages - which is where we're going next.
Re: Your prediction. LOL! If they want to, that's entirely up to them. Me? I've got better things to do with my time but hey, if it's what they want.

So Question:
At the moment, we have the GF'd in stuff sorted. But if new PCs are starting at Tier 5 (Average) then should their starting wage be the same as the starting wage for the GF'd in PCs? So a new PC starts at

Tier 5 - 66 Wealth Points (minimum) and wage of 12WP x season +1 for every season thereafter.

If I new PC chooses to start at Tier 4, that would be

Tier 4 - 46 Wealth Points (minimum) and a wage of 11 WP x season +1 for every season thereafter.

That makes sense to me. Any obvious flaws here? - I've put the table here