Fantasy RPG Forum - Standing Trials

It's a new thing - any questions? Ask them here!!!

First of all, happy New Year!

So, on topic. I've seen the Tier 2 skills announcement, and I've read the wiki article. I've read a whole lot of 'how to get' a Tier 2 skill, but not a lot of 'what is' a Tier 2 skill other than that it is 'actually super-human/supernatural/impossible as opposed to Capstone abilities only seeming to be that way'. But ehm, how so? Are there any examples that might help Players wrap their heads around this concept? Are there examples of a Gateway Plot that might serve as a guide when a Player wants to pursue a Tier 2 skill? I mean mostly in terms of do's and don'ts, as I understand the GPlot itself is meant to be a personal thing for each individual PC.

Also, Tier 2 skills are even beyond Capstones in that same skill. How does this translate into IC play? How big is the gap between Tier levels within a Tier 2 skill (novic vs competent, etc) and how does it compare to a Tier 1 master or grandmaster in that skill?

Does a Tier 2 skill replace the Tier 1 skill of the same name (eg Medicine tier 1 is now upgraded to tier 2 permanently)? More specifically, does this mean that one's basic usage of the skill (in this example, a surgery or so) is enhanced beyond master/grandmaster tier? Or does Tier 2 only grant the PC a special supernatural ability that the PC can then use IC, akin to capstones and Grandmastery of a skill? (What I mean is that when you become a GM in a skill, the difference between normal mastery and GM is that GM gets you a capstone, but not an enhancement of the 'basic usage' of the skill. Is this similar, identical, different to how GMing a skill worked?)

Building on the previous, am I correct in the assumption that a Tier 2 ability (Gateway ability?) is only granted upon reaching the next level tier in a skill (competent, expert and master)?

Can you gain Tier 1 exp in a Tier 2 review? I read you can get Tier 1 knowledge, as well as tier 2 knowledge, so what about exp?

That's all for now, thanks for reading.

Oberan wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:58 pm First of all, happy New Year!

Same to you!

So, on topic. I've seen the Tier 2 skills announcement, and I've read the wiki article. I've read a whole lot of 'how to get' a Tier 2 skill, but not a lot of 'what is' a Tier 2 skill other than that it is 'actually super-human/supernatural/impossible as opposed to Capstone abilities only seeming to be that way'. But ehm, how so? Are there any examples that might help Players wrap their heads around this concept? Are there examples of a Gateway Plot that might serve as a guide when a Player wants to pursue a Tier 2 skill? I mean mostly in terms of do's and don'ts, as I understand the GPlot itself is meant to be a personal thing for each individual PC.

There aren't examples yet - because no PC has taken up a Tier 2 skill.
So. If you think of Capstones as being the maximum possible human skill level - they are Cirque de Soleil in their Acrobatics. They are The Worlds Strongest Man in terms of strength.
Tier 2 is Peter Parker AFTER he got bit by the radioactive spider. It's the Hulk. It's beyond the max.
In more of an Idalos-specific manner. Think of the skill levels in Tier 2 skills as being akin to the power-levels in our Magic skill. Tier 2 Novice is probably more powerful than a Tier 2 novice mage, but it's a rough sort of a vague idea. And I'm afraid that's the best you're going to get in terms of this - it's new, and we need to play it and see it ourselves.

In terms of a Gateway Plot - - well, it's about story. We want to see the story leading things here. Not grind, not "I'll do these three things to get ahead in this mark, but will act in a manner completely out of order as far as the Immortal is concerned in other places." The person putting forward the Tier 2 Gateway Plot (and all the plots) needs to identify something that is specific to their pc, and pushes them.

Also, Tier 2 skills are even beyond Capstones in that same skill. How does this translate into IC play? How big is the gap between Tier levels within a Tier 2 skill (novic vs competent, etc) and how does it compare to a Tier 1 master or grandmaster in that skill?

You're asking for quantification of something that hasn't been played yet and also, which is unique to individuals. I'm not going to turn it into numbers. Tier 2 skills are beyond capstones, and they are continuous progression.

Does a Tier 2 skill replace the Tier 1 skill of the same name (eg Medicine tier 1 is now upgraded to tier 2 permanently)? More specifically, does this mean that one's basic usage of the skill (in this example, a surgery or so) is enhanced beyond master/grandmaster tier? Or does Tier 2 only grant the PC a special supernatural ability that the PC can then use IC, akin to capstones and Grandmastery of a skill? (What I mean is that when you become a GM in a skill, the difference between normal mastery and GM is that GM gets you a capstone, but not an enhancement of the 'basic usage' of the skill. Is this similar, identical, different to how GMing a skill worked?)

Gotcha. So, if you're a Tier 2 Surgeon, then you are a better surgeon than a Tier 1 GM surgeon. There is progression of skill but, honestly, at that point, you're so damn good it's almost impossible to measure. Hence, the abilities. But yes, Tier 2 is better than Tier 1 GM.

Building on the previous, am I correct in the assumption that a Tier 2 ability (Gateway ability?) is only granted upon reaching the next level tier in a skill (competent, expert and master)?

Yes.

Can you gain Tier 1 exp in a Tier 2 review? I read you can get Tier 1 knowledge, as well as tier 2 knowledge, so what about exp?

We've purposely moved away from XP. There is no such thing as XP for a Tier 2 review. The PLOT gains Tier 2 points on completion. You gain no XP for individual Tier 2 threads, just Tier 2 (and, if you wish, Tier 1) knowledge. When the plot is done, you get the points via the PSF for the whole plot, not the individual threads.

That's all for now, thanks for reading.

No worries - thanks for asking - good questions!

~Pegs

Since this is the same question as we exchanged on discord the other day, I'm going to add my answer from then onto here for others to reference also. Pegasus got the rest.

Oberan wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:58 pm First of all, happy New Year!

So, on topic. I've seen the Tier 2 skills announcement, and I've read the wiki article. I've read a whole lot of 'how to get' a Tier 2 skill, but not a lot of 'what is' a Tier 2 skill other than that it is 'actually super-human/supernatural/impossible as opposed to Capstone abilities only seeming to be that way'. But ehm, how so? Are there any examples that might help Players wrap their heads around this concept? Are there examples of a Gateway Plot that might serve as a guide when a Player wants to pursue a Tier 2 skill? I mean mostly in terms of do's and don'ts, as I understand the GPlot itself is meant to be a personal thing for each individual PC.

Also, Tier 2 skills are even beyond Capstones in that same skill. How does this translate into IC play?

Right, so for instance, Oberan's capstone of In Plain Sight depends on explanations like manipulating his body language and manipulating perceptions - an arguably feasible logic to it. A Tier 2 Stealth would be actual superhuman/impossible version that doesn't require the same sort of logic to it - in that for instance, something more akin to Cloaking from Dreamwalking (without needing dreamwalking), or an actual invisibility or camouflaged ability - could be examples of a Tier 2 Stealth Competent Ability. This would be discovered/developed/unlocked through the Gateway plot which is described in the Tier 2.

It would translate into IC play similar to how blessed and magic abilities currently translate - only the PC doesn't require a mark or a spark to actually have that possibility, but a tailored plot that develops the Tier 2 ability. They're meant to be very unique to the specific PC and their expression/relation to the Skill, and also to give mortal PCs a chance to discover such abilities without requiring an Immortal's Blessing or a Spark for it.

Hopefully that helps explain some. There's no guide yet, but once the first players go through the process, I'm sure one might get put together then.