Major update Discussion

[Kingdom]

I agree that the new system is better for the reasons Vluh mentioned but I don't think it would hurt to have the ratios made a bit more manageable. If they don't I could live with it but it would make things a little less tedious near the end.
You've got my vote.

Will be interesting over the next few months to see how it goes and how players advance. I think I talked about it in my vlog but honestly there has been so much discussion that I can't be sure, about no one ever really mastering anything unless they pour a hell of a lot of time into it. For example, I consider myself quite average at writing and I do a hell of a lot of it, but I don't picture myself ever becoming a master no matter how much time I put in. I think the ratios reflect this quite well and players will start thinking smarter about what skills they feed points into and when is the best time to stop on one and focus on another.

[Kingdom]

The points ratio is highly unlikely to undergo a revision I'm afraid folks. The top end points should be difficult to obtain, and they should take serious investment. However, in the world of idalos, I personally would be thrilled to see lots of PC's with many many low level skills up to novice in order to round characters out. If your character has no points in cooking, how are they eating? What about running, writing, sewing? Are they paying for someone to do all of these day to days tasks for them? It's unlikely that all PC's can really afford personal servants to keep house, cook for them, mend their clothes (and clothes are expensive to buy!) and so it might be worth investing in many low-level basic skills and concentrating on a few super star skills... just my thoughts...

However, points should be given freely. As pointed out, if someone keeps getting 4-8 points for their solo's they're going feel disheartened. This is not what the site is for.

A mediocre thread to one person, might be a thrill for another reviewer. Subjective opinions on subject matter, sentence length, story length shouldn't influence the number of points awarded. Because then it really isn't fair if one reviewer would have given full marks and another has dropped points for a subjective reason. Points are to award effort and to encourage.

Feedback is a wonderful way to explain how a reviewer felt sentences were too long too short, etc and to raise a few of those 'I think you missed a word - or I think you meant hear instead of here in line 5...' but again, they shouldn't be a reason to deduct points. However feedback should also be handled with kindness and respect. We're all at different levels and the last thing we want to do, is to discourage someone.

I personally try to limit 'feedback' of structure and story things to improve to one thing, or two at a push so that they can be considered by the writer. Lets remember, that as writers, although we're given feedback and someone might tell us our sentences are too long for their preference etc (boring example I know)- we're also entitled to ignore that advice and shouldn't feel as though our 'voice' is being dictated. One suggestion at a time, I feel, allows for consideration without threat of overwhelming or causing distress. Above all, (I'm going to repeat myself - sorry), putting work up for review opens up a little door of vulnerability. Kindness costs nothing, and it might just make someones day.

QFT.

[Kingdom]

I think it's less that it's hard to level up and more that this system encourages you to be a jack of all trades and makes specializing much less desirable.

I think you'll find it allows everyone to write what they enjoy, instead of stressing about "shit did I swing my sword enough to get a point?" People who like socialising IC will continue to do so, and are rewarded for this (writing with other PCs), with collaboration points. I promise you'll like it or your money back hahaha.

[Alistair]

Lmao. Gimme my 0 cents back, Kingdom!
I do like the update a lot as a whole, and my issues are only theoretical, so honestly I do believe it's something that we can see play out over a long period of time before any of these hypothetical issues with the ratio become problematic.

I'm glad it's easy to get max points, though. Like, I don't really believe it'll be an issue. It may be a bit unrealistic to go from novice to competent in a skill in two threads, but every system is a little bit unrealistic/imperfect. I think it's fine.

[Maltruism]

There are some skills that bolster several others, and are worth putting points into as an indirect way of specializing.
Strength and Acrobatics both serve to make an otherwise unlikely move entirely viable. Even Detection can serve a combat situation.

If have yourself up against an NPC with 10 or 15 more points in blades, it would be proper to start out writing that he is getting the edge, maybe even toying with you. But if you then "detect" that he has made moves to keep from getting his fine silk shirt dirty, you could very logically use the grimy scenery to bring him into a position where this vanity undermines his advantage. Finally, through gasps of exertion, you exclaim, "Oh my goodness, I've gone and soiled that fine shirt with your blood! How sad."

As for the ratio, I honestly think it is very true to life that when picking up a new skill, we go in leaps and bounds through the easy stuff. And it gets to be a grind as we get to more challenging levels. How long did it take to learn "Chopsticks" on piano?...5 minutes?...Happy Birthday?...a full day?...Piano Man?...A week?...Keith Emerson?...Mozart? Masters and Legends that I could not match in a lifetime of RL practicing.

When you've gotten to level 75, and you are faced with the slow going of the upcoming level, ask yourself if that is really an obstacle to writing. If you are really determined to run out and take on the mightiest swordsman in the land, and can't think of anything else to write in the meantime, well then go for it! He's probably an NPC and he doesn't have shit for Detection...lol

[Vluharqih]

Subjective opinions on subject matter, sentence length, story length shouldn't influence the number of points awarded. Because then it really isn't fair if one reviewer would have given full marks and another has dropped points for a subjective reason. Points are to award effort and to encourage.

I agree with the rest of what you said, and it makes sense. But the whole premise of grading is subjective. I get that were trying our best to eliminate the subjective nature of it, but language and marking of it in general is subjective.

Literally all of the "Story" marks are subjective. I may think the writer has an interesting and captivating plot, while another person might find themselves nodding off.

It just seems like the grading really just boils down to "did they write?", if so, then "full points"

[Kingdom]

There are some skills that bolster several others, and are worth putting points into as an indirect way of specializing.
Strength and Acrobatics both serve to make an otherwise unlikely move entirely viable. Even Detection can serve a combat situation.

If have yourself up against an NPC with 10 or 15 more points in blades, it would be proper to start out writing that he is getting the edge, maybe even toying with you. But if you then "detect" that he has made moves to keep from getting his fine silk shirt dirty, you could very logically use the grimy scenery to bring him into a position where this vanity undermines his advantage. Finally, through gasps of exertion, you exclaim, "Oh my goodness, I've gone and soiled that fine shirt with your blood! How sad."

As for the ratio, I honestly think it is very true to life that when picking up a new skill, we go in leaps and bounds through the easy stuff. And it gets to be a grind as we get to more challenging levels. How long did it take to learn "Chopsticks" on piano?...5 minutes?...Happy Birthday?...a full day?...Piano Man?...A week?...Keith Emerson?...Mozart? Masters and Legends that I could not match in a lifetime of RL practicing.

When you've gotten to level 75, and you are faced with the slow going of the upcoming level, ask yourself if that is really an obstacle to writing. If you are really determined to run out and take on the mightiest swordsman in the land, and can't think of anything else to write in the meantime, well then go for it! He's probably an NPC and he doesn't have shit for Detection...lol

Lmfao. All the win.

[Griffin]

Subjective opinions on subject matter, sentence length, story length shouldn't influence the number of points awarded. Because then it really isn't fair if one reviewer would have given full marks and another has dropped points for a subjective reason. Points are to award effort and to encourage.

It just seems like the grading really just boils down to "did they write?", if so, then "full points"

Well pretty much. We want to reward effort and we want to reward threads and posts. The ultimate aim for the site is for people to write. But it is, as Rumour explained a completely different mind-set to the previous ways reviews were done. Although there can be deductions, we're looking for positives in thread, not negatives. Someone's thread with beautifully constructed language, imagery, metaphor shouldn't be marked down because it's a really boring premise of a post round.

Is there a story in the thread? Is there conflict, internal, external, metaphorical and is there some attempt to resolve that conflict? Like Kraken has said, once we've graded a few threads or popped in and out to read them for pleasure, we have a good idea of each persons level and what can be expected of them.

[Niv]

Will be interesting over the next few months to see how it goes and how players advance. I think I talked about it in my vlog but honestly there has been so much discussion that I can't be sure, about no one ever really mastering anything unless they pour a hell of a lot of time into it. For example, I consider myself quite average at writing and I do a hell of a lot of it, but I don't picture myself ever becoming a master no matter how much time I put in. I think the ratios reflect this quite well and players will start thinking smarter about what skills they feed points into and when is the best time to stop on one and focus on another.

I think you'll find it allows everyone to write what they enjoy, instead of stressing about "shit did I swing my sword enough to get a point?" People who like socialising IC will continue to do so, and are rewarded for this (writing with other PCs), with collaboration points. I promise you'll like it or your money back hahaha.

Okay fair enough I actually prefer this system much more than the old one. There are skills that were next to impossible to even get to competent with the old system but this method makes it much easier to advance them. It was really just a thing that might become an issue in the long run but we can deal with it when it starts popping up.


this system is pretty flexible in that regard and I definitely prefer it over the old one.

[Jachiel]

I think you'll find it allows everyone to write what they enjoy, instead of stressing about "shit did I swing my sword enough to get a point?" People who like socialising IC will continue to do so, and are rewarded for this (writing with other PCs), with collaboration points. I promise you'll like it or your money back hahaha.

I do have an unpleasant suspicion that there will still be a lot of stressing about whether you swung your sword enough, only instead of "have I done enough to get a point?" it will reframe itself as "have I done enough to get a knowledge?". Knowledges are going to be a limiting factor in how far and fast you can advance a skill, and mostly I don't see how meet and greets will get you past novice in anything. Maybe it'll become clear once it's been in action for a while, but at the moment - I'm just not seeing it.