Major update Discussion

[Niv]

Since people are going to talk about this anyway I figured it would be best to keep it out of the question and answer forum and chat.
I think the only thing I would like to say is that we keep in civil. That means doing your best to avoid anything that might come off too abrasive and remember that the team is working without pay and on their own time, so be respectful.

[Vluharqih]

I personally really like the update. I find it puts the focus quite nicely back on writing the story, and it also allows someone to level up something that would otherwise come off a fairly repetitive (For example, Swimming).

The only "issue" I have is that it seems like it is very easy to get full marks. Maybe thats just me, and I'm missing the point, but I feel like it should be a very good story to earn top points.

But at the same time, that could be discouraging to writers who simply want to write, which is kind of the purpose of this site. So I'm torn. Anyone else have any opinions on this?

[Alistair]

I personally very strongly believe that it should be easy to get full marks with the way this is set up. The math dictates that at high levels you can only really get a small amount of points into a single skill even if you get full marks. I.e., you can go from 75 to 78 in one skill even if you get 15/15, and nothing else anywhere else, except perhaps from like 0 to 3 in another basic skill.

Now imagine if your average thread only gets like 8 points and your average solo gets like 4-6. The grind becomes so unbelievably steep that I can see people outright quitting at leveling their skills, since you'd basically have to do anywhere from 12-25 threads just to get one skill from 75 to 100, which in my opinion would be unbelievably tedious. I believe these changes were supposed to make leveling less tedious, so that would be counterproductive.

[Vluharqih]

Then maybe the ratios should be changed- I don't think that its reasonable to, in the span of two mediocre threads, go from not skilled at all to competent in swordplay, for example.

The grind at the higher levels isn't something I had thought about, as no one is there yet, but in the lower levels it seems that there is a ton of points to be had.

[Alistair]

I personally agree with changing the ratios. However, I was told that they are not going to be changed, period. So . . . ><
You at least have to get 5 knowledges to get to competent in a skill I believe, so that may bar people from becoming proficient unless they focus on that skill in those two threads. I do think it's sort of a complex fix overall.

[Niv]

I agree that the new system is better for the reasons Vluh mentioned but I don't think it would hurt to have the ratios made a bit more manageable. If they don't I could live with it but it would make things a little less tedious near the end.
You've got my vote.

[Griffin]

The points ratio is highly unlikely to undergo a revision I'm afraid folks. The top end points should be difficult to obtain, and they should take serious investment. However, in the world of idalos, I personally would be thrilled to see lots of PC's with many many low level skills up to novice in order to round characters out. If your character has no points in cooking, how are they eating? What about running, writing, sewing? Are they paying for someone to do all of these day to days tasks for them? It's unlikely that all PC's can really afford personal servants to keep house, cook for them, mend their clothes (and clothes are expensive to buy!) and so it might be worth investing in many low-level basic skills and concentrating on a few super star skills... just my thoughts...

However, points should be given freely. As pointed out, if someone keeps getting 4-8 points for their solo's they're going feel disheartened. This is not what the site is for.

A mediocre thread to one person, might be a thrill for another reviewer. Subjective opinions on subject matter, sentence length, story length shouldn't influence the number of points awarded. Because then it really isn't fair if one reviewer would have given full marks and another has dropped points for a subjective reason. Points are to award effort and to encourage.

Feedback is a wonderful way to explain how a reviewer felt sentences were too long too short, etc and to raise a few of those 'I think you missed a word - or I think you meant hear instead of here in line 5...' but again, they shouldn't be a reason to deduct points. However feedback should also be handled with kindness and respect. We're all at different levels and the last thing we want to do, is to discourage someone.

I personally try to limit 'feedback' of structure and story things to improve to one thing, or two at a push so that they can be considered by the writer. Lets remember, that as writers, although we're given feedback and someone might tell us our sentences are too long for their preference etc (boring example I know)- we're also entitled to ignore that advice and shouldn't feel as though our 'voice' is being dictated. One suggestion at a time, I feel, allows for consideration without threat of overwhelming or causing distress. Above all, (I'm going to repeat myself - sorry), putting work up for review opens up a little door of vulnerability. Kindness costs nothing, and it might just make someones day.

[Niv]

I think it's less that it's hard to level up and more that this system encourages you to be a jack of all trades and makes specializing much less desirable.

[Kingdom]

I personally really like the update. I find it puts the focus quite nicely back on writing the story, and it also allows someone to level up something that would otherwise come off a fairly repetitive (For example, Swimming).

The only "issue" I have is that it seems like it is very easy to get full marks. Maybe thats just me, and I'm missing the point, but I feel like it should be a very good story to earn top points.

But at the same time, that could be discouraging to writers who simply want to write, which is kind of the purpose of this site. So I'm torn. Anyone else have any opinions on this?

You should be struggling to find reasons not to award full points. They are minimal enough that no one can truly abuse it unless they write a hell of a lot, and hey, that is what we are trying to encourage! We read for enjoyment, we don't read to find mistakes, but if the mistakes are so obvious that they stop you from being able to read a thread, make notes, give feedback. Take examples from the player's own work, offer "next step" advice. Simply telling someone they sucked at x isn't fair. Marking someone down because you think you do more work than them isn't fair. We have players of all types of abilities here and our goal isn't to discourage anyone so please don't stress about full points. It takes 16.5ish (collaborative) threads to max a skill, most of our players are averaging 5 threads a season. I personally don't think we are going to have a problem, and anyone who is doing better then that, kudos.

[Kingdom]

Then maybe the ratios should be changed- I don't think that its reasonable to, in the span of two mediocre threads, go from not skilled at all to competent in swordplay, for example.

The grind at the higher levels isn't something I had thought about, as no one is there yet, but in the lower levels it seems that there is a ton of points to be had.

Don't forget that you need five pieces of knowledge at each rank (comp, expert, master, legend) to advance as well as the points. Just because you did ten mediocre tavern posts, doesn't mean you gained the knowledge to advance anything above comp.