Major update Discussion

[Kingdom]

I think you'll find it allows everyone to write what they enjoy, instead of stressing about "shit did I swing my sword enough to get a point?" People who like socialising IC will continue to do so, and are rewarded for this (writing with other PCs), with collaboration points. I promise you'll like it or your money back hahaha.

I do have an unpleasant suspicion that there will still be a lot of stressing about whether you swung your sword enough, only instead of "have I done enough to get a point?" it will reframe itself as "have I done enough to get a knowledge?". Knowledges are going to be a limiting factor in how far and fast you can advance a skill, and mostly I don't see how meet and greets will get you past novice in anything. Maybe it'll become clear once it's been in action for a while, but at the moment - I'm just not seeing it.

By collaboration I'm not imagining that they are only meet and greets. My character(s) have been on a few adventures with other PCs where a sword was swung. And as for knowledge, you're more than welcome to highlight what you're looking for when you submit a thread for review. Neither of these things are restricted by the new system.

[Jachiel]

I think you'll find it allows everyone to write what they enjoy, instead of stressing about "shit did I swing my sword enough to get a point?" People who like socialising IC will continue to do so, and are rewarded for this (writing with other PCs), with collaboration points. I promise you'll like it or your money back hahaha.

I do have an unpleasant suspicion that there will still be a lot of stressing about whether you swung your sword enough, only instead of "have I done enough to get a point?" it will reframe itself as "have I done enough to get a knowledge?". Knowledges are going to be a limiting factor in how far and fast you can advance a skill, and mostly I don't see how meet and greets will get you past novice in anything. Maybe it'll become clear once it's been in action for a while, but at the moment - I'm just not seeing it.

By collaboration I'm not imagining that they are only meet and greets. My character(s) have been on a few adventures with other PCs where a sword was swung. And as for knowledge, you're more than welcome to highlight what you're looking for when you submit a thread for review. Neither of these things are restricted by the new system.

Yes, I know collaborative threads don't have to be meet and greet. I'm just trying to reconcile the split in my understanding between the emphasis on "you can rp anything you want and still advance any skill" and yet in the background there's "you need knowledges to advance and they have to be acquired by doing the skill in thread". As I said, I'm willing to try the new system, I'm just struggling to see how the two work together, because from where I'm looking at them, they seem to conflict.

For example, if there is a skill that you hate writing about, but it makes sense for your character to have, how do you get the knowledges you need? Do you just suck it up and grind something out anyway? In the new system you can get the points easily enough by doing threads about skills and events that you don't hate writing, but the knowledges seem harder to get. (It's still an improvement on having to grind out lots of threads in the hated skill to get the points)

[Vluharqih]

Well personally since the update I've been looking harder for knowledge to give out. In several threads I've seen someone get 3 or 4 pieces of knowledge for one skill.

So yes it's still limiting you, but having 5 knowledge is easier than writing a thread where you can get max 5 or so points in a skill that you eventually want to have be legendary.

[Niv]

Knowledges aren't that hard to get you could have a conversation or read a book on sword play and you get one. You also only need 5 if you actually try to get knowledges the're easy as hell but before they were only used for like certain job requirements or to prove you knew certain lesser known facts. Now that knowledges are more important (cause lets face it not many people really cared that much about knowledges) people will consider them more (both reviewers and threaders). It's one of the reasons I like this change cause I don't want 200 knowledges and only 2 matter.

[Kingdom]

I do have an unpleasant suspicion that there will still be a lot of stressing about whether you swung your sword enough, only instead of "have I done enough to get a point?" it will reframe itself as "have I done enough to get a knowledge?". Knowledges are going to be a limiting factor in how far and fast you can advance a skill, and mostly I don't see how meet and greets will get you past novice in anything. Maybe it'll become clear once it's been in action for a while, but at the moment - I'm just not seeing it.

By collaboration I'm not imagining that they are only meet and greets. My character(s) have been on a few adventures with other PCs where a sword was swung. And as for knowledge, you're more than welcome to highlight what you're looking for when you submit a thread for review. Neither of these things are restricted by the new system.

Yes, I know collaborative threads don't have to be meet and greet. I'm just trying to reconcile the split in my understanding between the emphasis on "you can rp anything you want and still advance any skill" and yet in the background there's "you need knowledges to advance and they have to be acquired by doing the skill in thread". As I said, I'm willing to try the new system, I'm just struggling to see how the two work together, because from where I'm looking at them, they seem to conflict.

For example, if there is a skill that you hate writing about, but it makes sense for your character to have, how do you get the knowledges you need? Do you just suck it up and grind something out anyway? In the new system you can get the points easily enough by doing threads about skills and events that you don't hate writing, but the knowledges seem harder to get. (It's still an improvement on having to grind out lots of threads in the hated skill to get the points)

But surely you're naturally going to write some of the things you want your character to be good at?

[Jachiel]

For example, if there is a skill that you hate writing about, but it makes sense for your character to have, how do you get the knowledges you need? Do you just suck it up and grind something out anyway? In the new system you can get the points easily enough by doing threads about skills and events that you don't hate writing, but the knowledges seem harder to get. (It's still an improvement on having to grind out lots of threads in the hated skill to get the points)

But surely you're naturally going to write some of the things you want your character to be good at?

*Sigh*

If I said that there's a gap between the things that I need to write about to build up my character and the things that I will actually enjoy and want to write about, does that make any kind of sense?

[Niv]

For example, if there is a skill that you hate writing about, but it makes sense for your character to have, how do you get the knowledges you need? Do you just suck it up and grind something out anyway? In the new system you can get the points easily enough by doing threads about skills and events that you don't hate writing, but the knowledges seem harder to get. (It's still an improvement on having to grind out lots of threads in the hated skill to get the points)

But surely you're naturally going to write some of the things you want your character to be good at?

*Sigh*

If I said that there's a gap between the things that I need to write about to build up my character and the things that I will actually enjoy and want to write about, does that make any kind of sense?

What makes you think knowledges are harder to get? like having to make an entire 5 post thread where you have to stress about how much who wrote meditation correctly just to hope you get like 3 or 4 points in that skill. When all you have to do to get a knowledge is have your character read a book or have an npc or pc give you a tip on meditation and you have one of 5 point towards levelling up.

[Kingdom]

For example, if there is a skill that you hate writing about, but it makes sense for your character to have, how do you get the knowledges you need? Do you just suck it up and grind something out anyway? In the new system you can get the points easily enough by doing threads about skills and events that you don't hate writing, but the knowledges seem harder to get. (It's still an improvement on having to grind out lots of threads in the hated skill to get the points)

But surely you're naturally going to write some of the things you want your character to be good at?

*Sigh*

If I said that there's a gap between the things that I need to write about to build up my character and the things that I will actually enjoy and want to write about, does that make any kind of sense?

Yeah I understand what you are saying. You might enjoy writing swordplay etc, but don't enjoy writing about the strength or maybe endurance you need to wield the blade, that it becomes cumbersome targeting knowledge you don't enjoy. I think it can be done a lot more naturally and you might surprise yourself if you stray from the farming threads from time to time. I don't know if it's a big negative, I suppose an example where you have run into this issue might help? I'm trying to think of some from my own work but I haven't found it to be an issue (yet, I mean it's only been a couple weeks if that). Either way you need twenty, twenty five? Knowledge to get to lengend, if you even choose to take a skill you dislike that far, which is a lot less than 100 grinded skillpoints in something you really don't enjoy. You can earn five pieces of knowledge in a single post, more if you wanted, whereas the old system was one point per post no matter what. I don't think you will have to grind, but if you would like some ideas for how to earn the knowledges you are interested in, feel free to list the skills in question and I'd be more than happy to help brainstorm.

[Jachiel]

Sorry about the late reply. Work means I'm primarily on here at weekends.

I may take you up on the offer, but the thought process I went through looked roughly like this:

News on Update, heavy emphasis on taking any skill.
Thought: Great! I can put them into x or y or z or...
Actual update, knowledge requirements.
Thought: Wait, what? So there are limits even though all the emphasis is that there aren't?
Thought: Ugh, can't level anything up a level. Not enough knowledges in - anything. Looks like I'm capped in everything for the moment

( I hate being told one thing and then being expected to pick up that it's actually some other thing. Pet peeve.)

[Alistair]

I can understand that you feel it was falsely advertised, but based on what was pre-established about skills, knowledges clearly matter in ranking them up. It's not actually that hard to get knowledges in the skill you want. I think the problem here is due to the fact that you haven't had enough threads completed and reviewed. I was able to zerg rush to master Necromancer - if you do threads that focus on the skill you're trying to level, you will get the knowledges necessary very quickly. I personally believe that if the knowledge requirements didn't exist it would be ridiculous; you could become Legendary in a skill you've never threaded about.