[Skill] Persuasion

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Llyr Llywelyn
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[Skill] Persuasion

Here is the start for a Persuasion write-up.

Would appreciate suggestions for quick one-line examples of IRP persuasion scenarios to add!

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Name: Persuasion
{{#pagetitle: Persuasion}}
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Overview

Persuasion is often used by every character at some point. Whether to influence an individual or a group, it often involves an understanding of etiquette, psychology, and tact or sincerity. Understanding is pivotal for a character who seeks to be capable of greatly persuading a variety of other people. Those with natural charisma might find it easier to persuade than those without, in the earlier levels, but as a character progresses in their ability to persuade, it will be found that there are many ways to persuade others - and it all depends on the character's strategy and goals in convincing other people.

Most often, persuasion involves sincerity and genuine interest of getting another person to agree or to understand a point of view. Genuine friendships, building trust, cordiality, and graceful interactions usually combine with successful uses of persuasion. Some keys to persuading others includes a character's likability, trustworthiness, empathy, and willingness to share thoughtful explanations.

Some examples of persuading others in play is... (examples here)

Related Skills
  • etiquette
  • negotiation
  • seduction
  • intimidation
  • psychology
  • rhetoric
  • sociology
  • tactics


Novice: 0-25

The Novice in Persuasion has realized that people can be convinced to change their minds through discussion and conversation. Beyond the average person, they have started to explore this possibility to argue, negotiate, or otherwise influence what other people think. They find it easiest to accomplish when one-on-one with individuals, but still only find success about half of the time and dependent on how well they understand the other person. Naturally charming characters will have an easier time than those characters who are brusque, intimidating, or repulsive to the ordinary person... which doesn't mean the latter can't persuade, just that they must consider specific strategies to do so - especially at novice levels, and might have a tougher time to find success.

Competent: 26-75

Competent in Persuasion, it no longer matters as much if the character is naturally charming or not. The playing field has evened out, as those less charming characters have now figured out how to persuade without reliance of allure or glamour. Meanwhile, characters with charm realize that their charisma can only extend so far when it comes to persuading others, that they must still understand those who they seek to convince and learn to sway their opinions with actual discussion. Ordinary individuals are fairly straightforward to persuade now, groups are trickier but success can be usually achieved, as long as some sort of a rapport is made beforehand. Stubborn individuals who disagree, and/or have high discipline, are near impossible to convince without a lot of effort and understanding.

Expert: 76-150

The Expert at Persuasion no longer requires spending a lot of time to build a rapport, in order to convince someone. They are usually able to persuade complete strangers, as long as they are able to recognize what that person is most interested in. Most experts of persuasion recognize the use of different tactics in order to convince different people, and identify which persuasive methods might have a chance of success with people. Whether coming from logic, emotion, or otherwise, the expert has begun to practice tailoring their arguments and discussions to lead groups or individuals to agree or, at least, see things from different perspectives.

Master: 151-250

The Master at Persuasion has an entire arsenal of persuasion approaches, and are able to identify which methods will provide the greatest success with people. They no longer have to be in actual direct discourse with the person either. Persuasion through writing to the public through books or manifestos that might actually sway minds, becomes a strong possibility. Many of the most successful political treatise and legal contracts have been written by those with mastery of persuasion. Even the most disciplined and stubborn of minds can be rattled and reconsider their positions when in debate with a Persuasion Master. Given enough time, connection, and research, the master could potentially change the minds of entire councils, leaders, and populaces.
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Re: [Skill] Persuasion

Just a quick informal review:
- it would be nice to see the skill 'discipline ' mentioned earlier as a defensive skill
- maybe mention the difference between persuasion and negotiation? And also intimidation?
- what methods of persuasion are there? E.g. appealing to emotion, logical reasoning, peer pressure, virtue signaling, propaganda, fear mongering, assessing someone's internal motivations, use of credentials...
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Woe
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Re: [Skill] Persuasion

I really like what you have here so far...

The tiers look well done and get across how effective a person should be at each stage of skill.

What I'd like to see expanded on more, are the different aspects of persuasion. This is a skill that really works well in tandem with others, high synergies with other social skills.

I'd want to see appeals to force, appeals to pathos, appeals to reason, and appeals to wealth/gain properly associated with their synergized skills. Force goes with intimidation or weapon skill or strength, pathos goes well with either psychology or socialization, appeals to reason go well with research/psychology and appeals to wealth obviously go with negotiation. There are other forms of appeal that might apply to persuasion, such as appeals to class/birthright (etiquette), appeals to political expediency (politics).

I'm not sure if I agree that Discipline should be a defensive skill, not at least to the degree that disciplilne affects seduction attempts. Although it could factor in depending on the method of persuasion.

I'd like to see a section regarding debate in this write-up as well, to see how it might work for two persuaders duke it out! That might be fun to see play out.

I can't wait to see this fleshed out more, and look forward to seeing the end product!

EDIT: AND here are some offerings of persuasion examples:

One competent in Intimidation as well as Persuasion convincing someone to hand over their purse in exchange for not roughing them up.

One Master of Persuasion and expert in seduction convincing a cultist to betray some secret of their Deity.

One who is a Novice in Persuasion and a Expert in Negotiation bartering down the price of goods to a level that is within reason.
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Re: [Skill] Persuasion

I think this is a solid writeup.

I particularly like that what's being focused on here is the force of one's guile, rather than the direct structure of it, which is lent from elsewhere.

Though, I'd like to build on some of the commentary on the thread to help add to the discussion and help develop this skill more.
WoeI'd want to see appeals to force, appeals to pathos, appeals to reason, and appeals to wealth/gain properly associated with their synergized skills. Force goes with intimidation or weapon skill or strength, pathos goes well with either psychology or socialization, appeals to reason go well with research/psychology and appeals to wealth obviously go with negotiation. There are other forms of appeal that might apply to persuasion, such as appeals to class/birthright (etiquette), appeals to political expediency (politics). wrote:
Wouldn't Rhetoric be the Pathos/Ethos/etc? Seems more relevant for direct debate to be associated with that skill rather than persuasion (Since Rhetoric is more the logical structure of an argument/attempt to persuade/inform/etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetoric
(By definition it covers these appeals.)
Woe wrote:I'm not sure if I agree that Discipline should be a defensive skill, not at least to the degree that disciplilne affects seduction attempts. Although it could factor in depending on the method of persuasion.
Kinda halfway on this. Discipline is all about staying on task and resisting temptations. If you try to persuade someone into leaving their post, it makes sense to test against discipline. But at the same time, I somewhat agree that it might make discipline too bloated for use across the board.

What could be done, in lieu of discipline, as a defensive measure? Because if it's the only thing we've got for it... Things do need a solid counter.
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Re: [Skill] Persuasion

You are correct about rhetoric, although it could be many things that factor in. But yes rhetoric.
Kinda halfway on this. Discipline is all about staying on task and resisting temptations. If you try to persuade someone into leaving their post, it makes sense to test against discipline. But at the same time, I somewhat agree that it might make discipline too bloated for use across the board.

What could be done, in lieu of discipline, as a defensive measure? Because if it's the only thing we've got for it... Things do need a solid counter.
Hmm, yes definitely if you're turning someone from what they'd ordinarily do whether through seduction or intimidation, then yeah disc would factor in heavily as the willpower skill.

I was thinking for like softer persuasion attempts, otherwise discipline would get too big and become a 100% must have skill (Which, let's be honest, it already kind of is). Afterall, someone might be able to track what a fast talker says and calmy rebuff them but be wimpy or dweebish enough to let someone intimidate/seduce them into doing something they wouldn't normally.

Maybe socialization could be a thing here? I haven't worked on it much lately, but maybe more than being just a skill that involves making and keeping friends, it could be a defensive skill against soft persuasion atttempts and such?
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Re: [Skill] Persuasion

This is a lovely looking writeup, but it has been a year since the last post in this subject. Could I check if you are still interested in developing this skill?

If I don't hear back from you in 2 weeks I hope you don't mind if I file this away in the unfinished archive for a future date.
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